The Emotional Alchemy Podcast
Welcome to the Emotional Alchemy Podcast where safety is medicine, connection is never automated and everything is relational.
The Emotional Alchemy Podcast
147. The Medicine of Love with Husband Shawn Frazier
Welcome back to the Emotional Alchemy Podcast! After a seven-month hiatus, Kat HoSoo Lee returns with a heartfelt episode featuring her husband, Shawn Frazier. Together, they delve into the life-changing events of the past year, the strength of their relationship, and practical frameworks for navigating life and love.
Highlights:
•Kat’s Seven-Month Hiatus: The emotional journey of supporting her father’s stroke recovery in Korea and the lessons learned.
•Relationship Resilience: How Kat and Shawn maintained their bond during her extended time away and the concept of treating their relationship as a “third entity.”
•Secure Relationships: Shawn shares insights on fostering safety, adaptability, and trust in partnerships.
•Life Shifts and Prioritization: Kat reflects on shifting business and personal priorities after her time in Korea.
•Emotional Alchemy: Shawn’s perspective on integrating emotions and maintaining balance through life’s challenges.
Takeaways:
•The importance of mutual generosity and curiosity in relationships.
•Lessons on navigating crises as a team and maintaining connection despite physical distance.
•Frameworks for building and sustaining secure, fulfilling partnerships.
Theme Music Credit - Forest Lullaby by Olexy @olexymusic
Kat HoSoo Lee is an Emotional Alchemy Coach, Spiritual Business Mentor and host of The Emotional Alchemy Podcast.
She loves playing in the space where science and spirituality converge because this is where we get to experience emotional alchemy. In her work, she educates space-holders about somatic physiology and environmental biology so they can deepen their practices of listening and presence which ultimately helps them expand their capacity to hold space for others.
As a Spiritual Business Mentor, she guides soulful entrepreneurs to approach their business as a spiritual practice. The work bridges the emotional landscape with practical tools which allow them to cultivate businesses that are rooted in conscious values, relational marketing and purposeful service.
Hello and welcome to the Emotional Alchemy podcast. This is Kat Lee and I have taken a big break away from this podcast the last time I published something was back in early June and it is now early January of 25 and had to take a big break for big tectonic shifting reasons. And today's guest is my favorite human. This is Sean Frazier. He is my husband and I brought him on for two reasons.
Kat Lee:Um, I do best in storytelling when I have someone to sort of like, respond to and share space with and answer questions, and so I've asked him on to sort of help me tell the story of my dad.
Kat Lee:And I'm sure that I'm going to continue to have those stories trickle through the podcast and through Instagram and through the newsletter and all that.
Kat Lee:But I thought just sort of laying the foundational groundwork of like, hey, where has Kat been for seven months would be a good place to start and Sean's going to help me tell that story and Sean's going to help me tell that story. And, um, I don't know about you, but whenever there's big things that happen in life, I think it is a big opportunity to sort of shift and recalibrate and really understand what is of value and one of the gosh, I'm like already gonna start crying. One of the the biggest things that I feel like I've walked away from this experience is the value of secure relationships and, um, I've not always been the best at relationships and I think that Sean has been a really huge teacher, partner, co-creator of of this relationship and he has helped me sort of sink into my own capacity and and ability to to communicate better. And you know, one of the things that a client told me recently is like oh, how do?
Kat Lee:you know all this stuff about nervous systems and how to communicate, and and I was like, because I've been there and I continue to do this work, and and she was like you know, that's so surprising. I just thought you were perfect at this and I really want to take the veil off of being perfect at relationships, at nervous system regulation, at emotional alchemy, alchemy, um, and we should really like that's such a myth from the coaching industry is like let me stand on top of this like precipice and show you this, uh, curated, filtered version of what you think you want your life to look like, and and really like I, one of the things I am so proud of in my life is this relationship that I have with my husband, and you know we've talked about, you know, potentially having him come on and do several of these episodes together, because I want to sort of pop the hood on a strong partnership and talk to you and, you know, reflect between him and I about, like, what makes our relationship work.
Kat Lee:And so two intentions in this episode is Sean's going to help me tell this story and we're also going to talk about some of the practical frameworks that we have in terms of our, our own relationship, and I hope that that will apply to whatever relationship you're navigating in your life, whether it's a romantic partnership or, you know, relationship with a family member or, honestly, like this is gonna sound kind of silly, but, like I, take our frameworks and apply them to horse training and dog training and chicken wrangling, like it's totally applicable to all these aspects. So that's what we're going to do today.
Shawn Frazier:Sounds good. Yeah, you ready to start?
Kat Lee:Yes.
Shawn Frazier:Okay, so we'll go from.
Kat Lee:Wait before we start, okay, Okay, so we'll go from Wait before we start. Okay, I'm having trouble stepping out of the interview. Words Words.
Shawn Frazier:Seems like you're stepping out of words right now.
Kat Lee:Can you just introduce yourself and talk about who you are? Sean Frazier husband.
Shawn Frazier:Sure, I'm Sean Frazier, husband of yours. You know we've been in a relationship for eight-ish years, going from long distance. When I was in Nevada, you were in California. You moved to Vancouver. We were longer distance. You got trapped there during COVID. It was a nightmare. We persevered through a lot of ups and downs. You moved down to Nevada, then we both moved up to Washington. We got married along the way. I bought 10 acres with you, me and you bought 10 acres with a barn, two mini horses, two baby regular horses, a dozen and a half chickens, a turkey and a garden, and we live together and we are life partners together, and that's probably the relevant details of who I am in relation to you. That's enough of the stage, I think.
Kat Lee:We were not just in a relationship for eight years. I had a massive crush on you in high school.
Shawn Frazier:Likewise.
Kat Lee:And so we knew each other between the ages of what 15 to 18 ish, and then this was pre Facebook, pre social media days. And so we kind of disappeared from each other's lives for about 14 years, before I found you on Facebook.
Shawn Frazier:Yeah.
Kat Lee:So, yes, yes, context for our relationship. I also want to just add that, like you're a good guy, like when people ask me you know, you know what's like? I feel like the only way that I can really summarize it is he's a good guy, and what I mean by that is you have this internally directed compass of like morality.
Kat Lee:I want to say morality, and the right thing yeah, like we joke that the thing that you keep saying over and over again, as you're like moving through the world, is like that's just not right like you know yeah, I mean there's yeah, um, but I think that sort of that good guy compass has, um, has been important just in terms of you know, we come across, let's say, a difficult conversation that we need to be having and even if it's a difficult thing, you sort of lean into like what's the right thing to do here, what's the kindest thing to do here, what is the like, even if it is temporarily really fucking uncomfortable, what can I do to sort of look at the longterm of this? And to me, like I think that that's, that's a good guy, that's a good guy quality yeah that's.
Shawn Frazier:That's part of the. Yeah, yeah okay so you have questions for me. We had kind of we have. This is kind of a before, during and after story, so we'll start with before, sure, so we'll go back to june 2024. Um, I'm in my second year of being a bus driver. Finally get a vacation. So we have, I have a vacation, oh I forgot that.
Kat Lee:This is how it all happened, yeah so we're hanging out, you know.
Shawn Frazier:You're podcasting, seeing clients moving and shaking. You're at the farm. Um, we're thinking about growing food. We're thinking about getting chickens. We get the chickens. That's what's going on with the farm, and then things are going good. Lindsay was down, hung out for a week or so. She goes home the next day.
Kat Lee:Y'all know Lindsay, she's on the podcast. A lot Lindsay Lockett, yeah.
Shawn Frazier:Lindsay Lockett yeah, so she goes home the next day. We're hanging out together. I have one more day after that vacation.
Kat Lee:You get a phone call and I think, for context, my parents never call me.
Kat Lee:It's actually been like kind of a painful part of my relationship with my parents is I've always wanted more closeness with them and they've been distant, I think my whole life and there's an aspect of our relationship where they feel like they need to protect me from themselves, if that makes sense.
Kat Lee:And so to get a phone call from my parents, like immediately my heart is out of my body and um, it's my mom on the other line and she's panicking, she's at the hospital, my dad has had a stroke and um and um, I and this is like again, if we can talk about the safety in our relationship is getting off. That phone call, I think is the hardest I've cried in my life. Um, and I think a lot of the work that I've done up until that point has been about expressing feelings and, you know, being in touch with your body and understanding like where all these things are coming from, but like the grief that swept over me was just unbelievable yeah and um, I just remember like tapping my chest and saying to you over and over again I just didn't get enough time with him.
Kat Lee:I didn't get enough time with him and you know, you sort of went straight into action mode. Um, you like hopped online, bought a plane ticket I'm like sobbing as you're packing up my clothes, um, and I was basically on a plane the next day yeah, I remember.
Shawn Frazier:For both of us it was like I'll see you when I see you.
Kat Lee:Yeah.
Shawn Frazier:Because there was no. I'm going to go for a couple of weeks and get things situated. It was like you're going to go for as long as you need to go. You'll see what your dad's conditions, like when you get there?
Kat Lee:Yeah, and I wasn't sure if my dad was even going to be alive. When I got there, you know, um, um, the airline pilot like it was either the day before or after father's day as I was flying out, and, um, the pilot comes online and it's like, hey, if there's any, if there are any dads on board, like happy father's day. And you know, don't forget to wish your father's uh, you know, happy father's day. And and I just remember hearing that and just like sobbing and, um, like I cried the whole way to Korea, I think. And then when I got there, because we didn't have a return ticket back, it was just like, you know, I'll see you when I get there, or I'll see you when I see you. I had no idea that I was going to be gone for five months.
Kat Lee:Yeah, um, you know, just sort of like right off the bat, when people ask me how my dad is doing, um, today, I the most honest answer that I can say is he's doing okay. He had a major brain surgery. You know we had to. The doctors had to try to place a stent in. It didn't work, so he had, you know, an ischemic stroke, which is essentially like a blood clot that gets lodged in the brain and, um, it was on the left side of his brain and, um, the stent surgery didn't go as well as they had hoped, and then he had a hemorrhagic stroke a couple weeks after that first one. And so you know, today, as as we're recording this, he can walk with a cane and with assistance, which I think is amazing he will probably never have full use of his hand his right hand, um, and speech is probably not going to come back fully, and because his stroke was on the left side of his brain, a lot of the logical systems have come offline.
Kat Lee:And so, you know, even to this day, he struggles with things that are very sort of logical, like what is your name, what is the day of the week, what is, um sort of like. If you think about, like, categorizations, yeah, um, and yet you know, one of the, the things that I really just want to, like say that I'm grateful for in the time that I've had with him. Like, say that I'm grateful for in the time that I've had with him in Korea that four and a half months is. My dad was always a very logical, stoic, closed off kind of a guy and, you know, prior to his stroke. I could probably name the number of times that he has said I love you on one hand, like I can think of like four instances for sure. I kind of have to like, like, make the best of assumptions and think there must have been a fifth one in there you know, I didn't hear what he said.
Shawn Frazier:It must have been.
Kat Lee:I love you yeah, like there must have been a fifth one in there somewhere. But I can think of four distinct instances where he has said I love you. And in the four and a half months that I got to spend with him in Korea, um, it was I love you every morning, I love you every evening and I got like a lifetime of I love you's. Um, in that time that I had with him, even on, like, there were some really, really hard days. I think even on the hard days we could at least say I love you to each other.
Kat Lee:So I find that so fascinating about the brain is the sort of differentiation between the left and the right hemispheres, and you know, that's been one of the frustrating things about having him go through such a systemized. Is that a word? Systemized? Yes, you know, doctors assume like, oh, if you can't name this shape, if you can't name that a hat is a hat, that you can't name what your name is, then you've lost sort of the higher level functionings and in my experience with my dad is he's not lost any of those higher level functionings and the abstract thinking and, um, the emotions. He's lost sort of like I don't know, like the first part of the alphabet, but he can remember the last half of the alphabet.
Shawn Frazier:You know, yeah, um, so yeah, I'll just pause there so, in the context of um relationships, you're in a situation where you're away from me, everything has been paused and put on hold. Paused, unput, unhold. I think were you seeing clients? You definitely weren't recording podcasts. I don't think you were really much on social media.
Kat Lee:I wasn't on social media very much. I emailed my client list and I had just sold out BAM. Do you remember when?
Shawn Frazier:I left, I had just sold out BAM. Do you remember?
Kat Lee:when I left, I had just sold out BAM so I ended up refunding everybody in that group program because I couldn't possibly think about hosting those and I had had a sort of short roster of one-on-one clients and I emailed everybody on the short roster and was like hey, like I'm for sure taking the next month or so off and I'll let you know when my schedule opens up and it will likely be very limited and there will have to be like this understanding that I might have to cancel last minute because of my dad and luckily everyone on my client list was just so understanding and supportive just so understanding and supportive and yeah, yeah.
Shawn Frazier:So I know while you were gone, there was many things that I realized about our relationship, like areas where I missed you uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh.
Kat Lee:Tears on both sides. It's a hard time to think about, huh yeah, keep this interview rolling.
Shawn Frazier:So I was learning a lot of things about our relationship that made me feel very strong feelings and confirmation that, wow, I picked the right woman, you know cause I missed you so much. And I remember a story that you had told me while you were there that you were trying to get into one of your dad's accounts something and your mom, you didn't know the password. Your mom's like, oh, it's probably this nailed it first try.
Shawn Frazier:Yeah, first try, first guess so I guess in the context of relationships, because we're filling people in on where you were, why you were gone, like what were the things that you were noticing, maybe about your parents relationships, that relationship that you didn't notice before, and maybe like our relationship that you didn't know or notice before. Good question, thank you.
Kat Lee:Thank you, it me a little while to get it out, got there, I think, in terms of my parents' relationship. They've been together for four years and my parents were an arranged marriage and so I know, like I know the first half of their marriage very well. My mom didn't really want to get married to my dad and, you know, kind of felt like she had lost out on a lot of opportunities. She never got to date. It was just this is the guy you're going to marry and here you go, have a life and have babies, and she didn't feel like she had a lot of choice. So I'm very familiar with that part of the story where, you know, there was duty and love, but it felt like the love was because of the family unit, not necessarily like love for each other, um, and I think the thing that became really clear to me because this is the longest I've spent with my parents since I left the house is that love for each other has grown to like a devotion that like I can't, I couldn't really comprehend Until like I could relate it to my own relationship with you, um, and so there's there's an aspect of my parents where they've grown to love each other through, sort of like, maybe not the best circumstances and circumstances that we as americans don't fully understand or comprehend. Um, but there is such a deep devotion that they have for each other and such a deep love that they have for each other that, like it's hard to sort of. Yeah, it's it, you know.
Kat Lee:Like we want to talk about secure relationships and, um, I think that my parents have had to really forge that secure relationship through not the best circumstances and also like fighting through their own.
Kat Lee:You know, they don't have the language around this, but like their own attachment style. My dad is a very avoidant person, my mom is very anxious, and they've had to find a happy medium that works for both of them. And it really does work for both of them. Yeah, I think, in the context of our relationship, the validation that I got, I mean, mean, I knew I was going to miss you going away for that long, but I think the validation that I got was like oh, here's a person who I can do hard things with. Yeah, you know, um, and to me, like that feels like such an essential part of a secure relationship is like life is gonna be hard, like there are gonna be moments where you know just, life is gonna happen you know parents get sick, you know there are natural disasters around us, there are financial struggles, there's you know any number of things and difficulties.
Kat Lee:I feel like a really important filter that I didn't realize that I needed until I had it was until I had. It was like, hey, does this person make difficult things easier or harder? Because I've had two relationships, two serious relationships before you and both of those relationships I can unequivocally say that like I couldn't surrender into how hard or how difficult that situation was, whatever the situation could be, cause I was worried about how it was bland for the other person and trying to protect them from that other thing, and I think that there were a lot of sort of like missed learning opportunities that I could have had, surrendering into difficult situations because I didn't have the right partner.
Shawn Frazier:I guess the other, one of the other major things that happened that I can think of you. You know, business is put on hold, you're away from home for an unknown amount of time and then it seemed like you had somewhat of a shift in priorities. When you came, when you got back and after you know several weeks, those were kind of becoming clear and seemed like they were kind of solidifying for you. Do you want to talk about how certain things, maybe priorities, shifted, what things maybe had a different perspective on?
Kat Lee:I think I can share what I know now, because I feel like the priority shifting is still happening. Feel like the priority shifting is still happening. Um, I think part of that shifting is really looking at my life and thinking about, like, like we have finite time, yeah, you, and entropy is happening all the time, like things left to their own devices do not order themselves, things left to their own devices descend into chaos, and so what do I want to spend my time doing? What feels valuable, what feels like it needs to be put into order, has definitely been like a big sort of important shift since I've been back. I think a big part of that is prioritizing our relationship and beyond that, I that is prioritizing our relationship.
Kat Lee:Um, and beyond that, I would say, prioritizing, um, like, at least in my personal life, prioritizing relationships that feel nourishing and divesting from relationships that don't feel nourishing. And I think I can be even more specific about that is I am, I tend to be, a giver in relationships and so, like, left to my own devices, I will give 80% and accept somebody's 20%, and that's never happened in me and you 20%, and that's never happened in me and you but sort of placing our relationship as a model of like how I want to feel in all of my relationships has made me like really like sink into the few personal relationships that I feel like safe and secure in and and maybe pull away some of my energy and relationships and that might even just look like, hey, like I'm, I'm giving 50 instead of 80 now yeah, do you want to talk at all about maybe shifts and how you see your business or professional slash career trajectory?
Kat Lee:having those few clients that stayed with me through this crisis and my family made me realize that I actually really, really love one-on-one coaching. I love the intimacy of a one-on-one coaching container that lasts for several months and sometimes years container that lasts for several months and sometimes years. And like I think that there's this idea in the coaching world of like, well, you need to scale and you need to get bigger and like you know, like the last two high and the output was so high and like there were so many things about that that just felt unsustainable. And so like, when I think about how do I want my business to look, like moving forward, the things I want to prioritize are to have a really simple business with a low overhead and to have every point to be like the touchstone is like intimacy, like how do we create more intimacy? Because I think coaching is an art form and I think that when we industrialize this thing, that we do space holding, we lose the intimacy. And that like personal touch.
Kat Lee:Because ultimately, like what coaching at least the way that I think about coaching is like it's about healing relational wounds and sometimes you need a safe relational person to practice that out with. Think you can just do that through automated videos and you know, just here, watch this. You know this workshop that I hosted and expect to have that same level of like heart-to-heart connection that you have with like true intimacy, yeah, and so I don't really know what the structure of that's going to look like in the business, but one of the big gifts that you've given me is like the ability to actually take a step back from my business and say like hey, bills are going to be okay, like let's build something that like you want to be doing, like what do you want your business to actually look like moving forward? And and having the ability to just like receive that and do that feels like such a gift.
Shawn Frazier:Yeah. So that's, I guess, how I would segue into talking about things more relationship-wise, secure relationship, because one of the things that I've really valued about our relationship that makes me feel secure is the ability to adapt or be dynamic without feeling like, uh-oh. To adapt or be dynamic without feeling like, oh, I have to worry what my wife's going to think if I want to take up this hobby or this pastime or if I want to change my career in this way.
Shawn Frazier:So I guess maybe you actually already answered that question because I was going to. I was going to ask kind of about where does that security come from? When you're thinking I want to take a massive shift in my business, and we had the comfortability to have the conversation about if you scale back in your business, what is that going to look like and can we afford it? And it's like, well, if we're willing to make changes here, here and here, you can go ahead and take all the time you need to figure out what that wants, what you want that to look like. Yeah, so I guess I'm just kind of reiterating that that's one of the things that I feel really good about as far as being secure in our relationship is I don't feel like I have to be the guy that you met and I don't feel like you have to be Catley the coach.
Shawn Frazier:Podcaster. X, y, z. Do you have any? Like, from your experience, is that? Is that a pressure point on relationships of people? You know that I feel like I'm stuck in this role because I can't change or else my partner might not want to change with me. Like, do you have any?
Kat Lee:Certainly I think that, like when we get into at least a lot of my clients, like they're getting into the self-development work, they're getting into nervous system regulation work most of my, my people are women, and they tend to be in heterosexual couples. That just is sort of the folks that you know seem to be in my space. Um, there's, there's this feeling almost of like well, I'm changing, you should be changing at the same pace too, and there's not a lot of like.
Kat Lee:I think that this actually goes into like one of the frameworks of our relationship, which is give the most generous assumption of the other person like assume that that person is doing their best yeah and you know, just because, let's say, with finances, I know that, like we've talked about doing a whole episode on finances, but just sort of as a touch point, is like you know you got a handle of your finances and like your understanding of finances before I did, and had you been there, being like, well, how come you don't know this yet?
Kat Lee:Like I feel like that would have made me shut down even more about finances and feel like even more dumb, about you know, wanting to make changes but not knowing how to and not having the tools and the skills to. And so you know, I think that that can apply to everything, whether it's communication and being like well, why don't you know how to communicate? Well, it's like maybe because you know your partner hasn't read that book about nonviolent communication, or maybe he hasn't taken that class that you've taken. And so it's about how can you, um, how can you both be on the same team in the midst of big change and in the midst of big shifts? And to me, like the concept that you came up with years ago that I think is such a huge and important part of our relationship, is like we think about our relationship as like a third person in our family, you know, so maybe you could speak a little bit to that piece.
Shawn Frazier:Yeah, so I remember it's actually had kind of a question. I was going to segue over that, so I'm glad you're asking, but there's kind of like the idea I know like of if a couple is having a fight, the thought of like well, who won the fight? And I remember kind of having a conversation with you years ago about having watched my parents have fights and thinking about they're on a team. And thinking about they're on a team and, regardless of if somebody wins that fight and somebody loses, the team loses. Yeah, and kind of thinking of it as we have a team to take care of and sometimes what's going to suit the team best is going to require maybe a little bit more attention to you, a little bit more attention to me, or maybe we both need to sacrifice some of our own time to do some more work on the relationship so that more focus would be put on the relationship is there like a specific example you can think of so?
Shawn Frazier:yeah. So you had said so you would give 80 and accept 20 in our relationship. I think a good example is you having been away and having priorities shift away from the relationship. You had a major event your dad had a stroke. His condition is uncertain. Getting there it's uncertain so much uncertainty so I never felt like I'm not getting enough. I never felt like the relationship was getting enough. However, objectively looking at it, the relationship took the back burner, so it was more like a 90 95 percent of our relationship resources went to you. I'm taking care of horses, I'm trying to work as much overtime as I can, I'm taking care of the garden. So there was like a 95 5 ratio. Yeah, but when we look at the context of a relationship as me, you and a relationship, it allows you to shift priorities where they need to go for the good of the team.
Shawn Frazier:So I think having a concept of the relationship as its own entity has kind of allowed us the flexibility, the leeway, the security to kind of not always need 50, 50. Yeah, do you have anything you want to say about that?
Kat Lee:I think an important thing that you're naming and I just want to highlight that is like it's never going to be exactly 50, 50, 100 percent of the time.
Kat Lee:You know, and accepting that feels really important.
Kat Lee:I think another part of that that feels really important is that, like what you, what we ask, like when I say we give to the relationship, it never pulls me out of like, my authenticity.
Kat Lee:It never asks me to mask or fawn or, you know, do something. That feels out of integrity for me, and so I think that that feels like an important piece is like I don't want somebody to hear this and walk away being like well, I just need to keep giving and giving and giving to the relationship for the sake of the relationship. Like sometimes, when you have that dynamic because I can certainly say that I had that with my ex-husband is like like so much of my resources was going to this relationship to keep us together that it was pulling me out of my authenticity, of my own wants and desires. It's one thing to say hey, sean, I need you to put some of the priorities that you don't normally prioritize in your life like the horses in the garden. I need you to put that on the front burner and you can do that for a short period of time, like the horses in the garden.
Kat Lee:I need you to put that on the front burner and you can do that for a short period of time. But it's not like, you know, a situation where I'm asking you to be somebody that you're not, which I think that some people get into like that kind of difficult dynamic when it comes to their relationship. Which I mean to me is this is the important part around discernment and choosing a good partner, choosing somebody who is a good match for you, and maybe we can go like in the way way back machine for a moment, because I'd love for you to sort of speak about what it was like before you and I started dating, because, you know, one of the things that I found really attractive about when I first met you is you were somebody who was already doing work like and by work I mean like you were taking care of yourself, you were exercising, you were, you know, making sure that, like you were taking care of yourself, you were exercising. You were, you know, um, making sure that, like you were sort of heating, meeting some health goals.
Kat Lee:You were emotionally intelligent, you had good communication skills like this was all stuff that was like pre-existing before you and I had met, and so there was never this feeling where I felt like I had fallen in love with the potential of who you could be. It was just I got to fall in love with who you were in that moment and we've continued to fall in love with all the different versions of each other through the years, you know. So if you could sort of speak to that piece, I'd love to to. I think that would be valuable for folks who are maybe single and wanting to find a partner and like being like well, why can't I find that person?
Shawn Frazier:yeah, you know, no, that's exactly that kind of exactly describes myself. It's like I just felt good about myself. I just felt like you know, I'm a good guy, I would be a good partner. Why can't I find somebody? And I somewhat kind of got into the like well, I'll just be single forever mindset, but it just wasn't really fulfilling and I was always wondering where is that person for me? You know why am why am I alone? Um, so there was just a kind of a taking stock of where my life was at, what I was looking for and who I was at the time, just before we met. Um. So I got specific on what kind of person I was looking for and you fit the bill you were very, you were very specific yeah, I mean right down to wanting somebody from same hometown, preferably same high school.
Shawn Frazier:as it turned out, same same peer group, somebody I knew I wanted, somebody familiar with that backstory, familiar and common experiences that we could kind of bond over. Then I kind of looked at myself and was thinking you know, girl walks through the door right now I have my chance. How am I feeling? What am I thinking like? What do I have to offer? And there was a time where I was like you know that it makes sense that I'm alone because what I want isn't really matching what I'm working for, what I'm deserving of really. So I kind of said put myself in her shoes. Who is she looking for? Is she looking for some bouncer who's a slob who just drinks with his buddies and chain smokes on the weekend?
Shawn Frazier:You know, like that's not enticing, that's not attractive. So just put wheels in motion, start getting a little bit better shape, keep the house a little bit more straightened up, you know, let's quit smoking, let's, you know, become somebody that somebody else would actually want to be with. Um, now, I didn't know it would have this side effect, but when we got back in contact, like, the position I was in was like I'm super excited to meet this person, because I feel like, hey, look at all this that I have to include you in. I have all these friends, I have all these places I could take you to. You know, I have my condo. You know I'm fit, I'm healthy, I'm active.
Shawn Frazier:Um, so, instead of being like down on my luck, crying in my beer, why am I so lonely? I kind of put myself in a position to be confident when I met you, re-met you anyhow. So that went. I mean, the timing was great, we met, and I mean how did it seem when we met? Did I seem uncomfortable, did I seem insecure, or did I seem confident? Did I seem ready to kind of bear myself to you?
Kat Lee:I would say you were confident. I would say that the most attractive part about meeting you was that like you were yourself. And then, sort of as a ripple effect of you being yourself, it like made me feel confident, to sort of be myself as well. And I think some of the work that I had done up until that point was, like you know, I have a tendency to fawn in relationships. I have a tendency to like mold and shift, um, because I grew up with a father who was pretty absent, you know. And so then it becomes this game of like well, what can I do to make you stick around? And you know, I think I had also dated a lot of guys who were like that as well, and so then it was just like two people fawning to each other. You know, like what do I need to do to keep you around?
Shawn Frazier:and what can I?
Kat Lee:do to keep you around and then it's just like this, like mushy, I think this is. This is where we go into like codependency patterns, right, but I think that you know you being solid about who you are and what your desires and wants, were allowed me to sort of meet that and be like okay, so if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out and that's okay. You know, and I think that that's an important part of any relationship is that we are choosing to be there. Um, I think that a lot of times, people feel like, for various reasons and some of it can be in the sort of like tangible 3d world of like we have kids together, we have finances mixed up together, you know, fill in the blank, and it feels like that choice goes away. Yeah, and I think it's really important, particularly when it comes to friendships, like deep friendships and with your partnerships, like do you choose this person?
Kat Lee:And examining that on like a fairly regular basis, because I can honestly say that, like every single one of the people in my life like I choose to have in there. I think another important part is and an important question to ask in relationships is, like, if you have to step away like I had to step away from our relationship for four and a half months and there were times during, I think, the first half of that trip, um, particularly because, like my dad was sort of like in ICU, wasn't sure, like like his schedule was crazy. And then the time difference, like there were times where, like I didn't talk to you for like a week.
Shawn Frazier:Yeah.
Shawn Frazier:Cause you guys are 16 hours ahead, yeah, in South Korea. So a lot of times you were going to bed, something like you were going to bed right when I was on my way to work. I was getting off work right when you were waking up um. So off work right when you were waking up, um. So that, uh, that distance and like the unavailability really was it was an unfortunate way to confirm how much I missed you, how much I loved your involvement, how much I valued your, your input and just your involvement in my day to day. Um, I had spoken to some people at work that were like, oh my God, you must really miss your wife and I said you know, I'm, I'm really lucky because I miss her like crazy. Um, I know some people were kind of like I wouldn't mind if my wife or husband was gone for a while.
Shawn Frazier:I remember thinking like that's kind of sad, you know, and yeah and for me I don't know that this was a big could have been a potential I want to, it was I guess, objectively a stressor on our relationship, that for me, the whole time it was just confirmation after confirmation that you were the right person because one I was having to work harder than ever to maintain things around here by myself. On the other side of that was, I was happy to do it. I was happy to be able to provide for you the security of just being able to focus on what you needed to focus on.
Kat Lee:Yeah.
Shawn Frazier:And there was the, you know, eating breakfast alone and being like I really wish my wife was here.
Kat Lee:Yeah, you know, coming home from work and really wishing you were there and being glad that someday you, you, would be there but also being glad that I wasn't there, like I think, you know, one of the things that we've talked about is like what a gift it was that I got to go away for so long. And you know, gift in both the business sense, because I have a business that travels with me and the business is also flexible enough, like because of the clientele that I've that.
Kat Lee:I've brought in, that everyone was super understanding, but also like what a gift it was that I have a husband who I can step away, and when I come back, the relationship's actually more secure and more stable than it was before.
Kat Lee:And like I think that that's something that doesn't get talked about. A lot in relationships is like, well, what happens when you step away out of necessity, you know, and you know what happens if you can't talk to your person every single day or even every other hour. And for me it's like like that, like the vision that I'm having, is this like little ember that we sort of keep alive even in each other's absence and we trust each other to keep that alive even in each other's absence. And you know, to me they're like one. One of the biggest gifts that you gave me is that I could step away and I didn't have to worry about you. I didn't have to worry like, oh my gosh, is this going to be too much for our relationship? You know, is this going to be the thing that breaks us? You know, is he going to be able to feed himself? Like, like you know, I think that that is that like interdependence that we were talking about and alluding to earlier is we depend on each other like in a very, very real, daily sort of a way yeah
Kat Lee:and we're independent enough humans that if we need to for the sake of the relationship, for the sake of life or whatever it is, you know we can still pull each other, pull away from each other, and the structure does not fall.
Kat Lee:And you know, you and I think about our relationship as being a team and thinking about, like how can we nurture this third entity in our relationship? How, like, what are the needs of this third entity in our relationship? And you know that might require a sacrifice on one or both ends, or it might be a stating of needs on on one or both ends. But then also, like like you were a teammate of our family, even if that teamwork that you were doing was like hey, like I'm gonna work overtime and I'm gonna cover and make sure that, like life is gonna be okay when cat comes back. You know, and you know my mom like stated almost on a daily basis like how wonderful is it that Sean is able to like handle things at home so that you can be here with us, and how much they needed me to be in Korea. And I didn't have like even a fiber of my being thinking or being worried about like oh shit, is this going to break me and Sean.
Shawn Frazier:Yeah, yeah. That's a real point of pride for me, knowing that your parents could see, of pride for me knowing that your parents could see that you had a partner that is solid, somebody they could approve of, especially for your dad not knowing which way his health might go, to know that his daughter is with somebody that can take care of her, I mean. One thing I think about, though, is me also not having to be worried that everything has to be perfect, because while you were gone, I had to set priorities and say what needs to be alive. Our garden or our horses, um, I mean it kind of. I mean we had peas coming up, potatoes doing great. We had beets that were looking good. We had a blueberry plant plant mulberry plant. We had a blueberry plant mulberry plant. We had gosh. What else did we?
Kat Lee:have. We had a full garden kale.
Shawn Frazier:The kale was blowing up, but it was taking me an hour and a half to two hours a day to haul water out to the garden and water and then go take care of the horses and then get to work and it was like I'm burnt out, had to let you know. I let the garden go in stages where it's like, okay, I'm just going to focus on this, I'm just going to focus on this, and then it got to where it's like, okay, I'm gonna water the blueberry bushes and I'm gonna water the asparagus. That's all I got time for. Take care of the horses, make sure they're alive, and then, as far as like, around the house, the house wasn't perfectly clean, you know, definitely not, definitely not. So, yeah, you didn't have to worry about am I going to be able to take care of this guy or is this guy going to be able to take care of himself? I also didn't have to worry that I didn't do things perfectly. I didn't have to worry you were going to come home and say what happened to this.
Shawn Frazier:What is this doing here? How come this is that way? You know, we both having an understanding of being on a team, we both realize each other are doing the best, like I wasn't slacking off. I wasn't slacking off, you weren't slacking off, I wasn't slaving away while you were just on vacation, you know so, whereas you didn't have to worry about me, it made me feel good that you weren't worried about me. I didn't want you worried about me and I didn't have to worry about you coming home and nitpicking the way I maintained everything. Yeah, so I think, if I'm thinking of a secure relationship, I look at that experience and I think one. We had an enormous stressor on our relationship and at no time did I start to feel like cracks were forming, so to speak, and also I just feel like I feel like it just reinforced all of the things that have made our relationship strong and good.
Kat Lee:I think that that goes back to that like core framework of ours, which is like make the most generous assumption of the other person, you know, assume that the other person is doing their best and I feel like that shuts down so much insecurity and shuts down so much of like potential arguments that could happen, because another way that that could have gone is because I do have a tendency to be a little bit perfectionistic Is like Just look at the husband.
Kat Lee:You found perfect um but like another way that could have gone is like you have a history of not doing your best, history of not doing your best.
Kat Lee:You know you have a history of like slacking off and you know, like not meeting not even the standards of the house or the relationship, but like not meeting the standards of yourself yeah, I mean at times like certainly you know, but like if there was like a long-standing history of that, like I'm just thinking of my ex-husband, like part of the way that I think I would have thought in that relationship is like I can't make the most generous assumption of you, because I know this isn't your best, you know, and so I think that when there is concerted effort on both sides and then when we aren't meeting our standards of you know, ourselves or our relationships expectations, it's not well, what's wrong with you? You need to fix this.
Kat Lee:It's like hey, like I wonder what's going on with you yeah you know if we can sort of approach those moments where we aren't doing our best curiosity instead of contention and instead of judgment. Yeah, because certainly like we don't we don't do our best all the time but in those moments where we fall short it's like okay, so can we step into curiosity.
Shawn Frazier:Yeah.
Kat Lee:Can we?
Shawn Frazier:step into compassion. Yeah, and If your teammates not doing your best, it doesn't help the team to kick them while they're down. You know you're on my team If, if you're struggling in any way there's like even like cynical ways to look at this. The best thing I can do for myself is not to dunk on you.
Shawn Frazier:You know, the best thing I can do for myself is help you get back up to form yeah you know it's the best thing for you and it's best thing for the relationship, whereas you know getting into blaming or getting into like I just don't get it, I don't you know why are you doing this? Like when, when you're struggling to do your best and somebody's acting like you're just choosing to be lazy in a certain way, or you're just like you're choosing to fall short, that's not helpful. Yeah, you know. So that general, that spirit of generosity and like what's going on?
Shawn Frazier:yeah like I guess, like kind of to go back on, you know, I think you mentioned financial competency, where it was like I seemed to be a little bit more financially secure and knowledgeable and you weren't there. Math is hard man, sure. Sure I mean. But the spirit of generosity for me is like, well, I wonder what your experience is like, not like what's wrong with you, you know, I'm like hmm, I have this wonderful person here.
Shawn Frazier:She's smart, she's capable and she's kind of ignorant in certain areas. What is that? And she's kind of ignorant in certain areas. What is that about? Not, she's? What a loser. Wow, she's not as smart as I think she is. Like no, my read is correct You're smart and capable. Let's investigate and see what's going on. Yeah, you know. And then the great thing about that is you got up to speed and then we had a little teamwork, a little powwow, and now I'm even on a new plateau, financially speaking, as far as, like, planning, budgeting, prioritizing. So yeah, I think that spirit of generosity and assuming that somebody is doing their best, I think that's of generosity and assuming that somebody is doing their best, I think that's important.
Kat Lee:Yeah. So one of the things that I want to be asking each of my guests at the end of each episode is the title of this podcast is Emotional Alchemy Podcast. What do you, how do you interpret that? What is your definition of emotional alchemy and how has that showed up in your life? I'm putting you on the fly. I didn't tell you, I didn't want you to know that, that's okay, I've actually got a pretty good answer.
Shawn Frazier:Um, when I think of emotional alchemy, when I hear that phrase, what I think of is what I think of is emotional control, which is not romantically controlling your emotions. When I think of emotional control, I think of observing an emotion, integrating it and moving on. And uh, you know, like me and donovan have had conversations donovan's, his best friend yeah, best buds, where he's been told like, oh, like, you should go to therapy.
Shawn Frazier:You're avoiding your emotions. Well, he's not avoiding his emotions. I don't avoid my emotions, I just don't. I'm not controlled by them. So for me, emotional alchemy is about experiencing your emotions in a way that is safe and healthy and if they're taking control of you, investigating that and trying to find out what's going on. I mean, now I think about it. Before we moved here and before we moved on to our land and all that I had like an emotional not there was like an anxiety I had do you remember that? Where it was like what is this? And I remember we just leaned into that, paid attention to that, felt it out. What's going on? What am I feeling? Why am I feeling this way? It wasn't about getting rid of those feelings. It was about naming them, categorizing them, putting your finger on them, seeing what they are and why they're there.
Kat Lee:So that's my interpretation of emotional alchemy. Lovely, does that answer the question? Yeah, well, thank you for being my emotional support person as I lean into restarting this podcast again. I was really excited to do it but I think I had, like you know, first day jitters. And thanks for being you, thanks for being my honey and uh, you're so welcome you're not on the socials so I can't. Usually, usually, uh, I invite people to to find my guests on social media but, you don't do the social find me through her all right.
Kat Lee:Well, I'm hoping to have many more conversations on the podcast with you. So if you're listening, and you've listened this far and you're kind of interested, we'll take questions. So if you have, dm me on cathosuly. We'll see you soon.